Cooling System

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Cooling System

Postby Thaidon » Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:21 am

So, what i want to do is place another (smaller) radiator just below the driver side vent. This will be fed from the front radiator into the smaller radiator; allowing the coolant to be the coolest possible just be entering the motor. (Also, below the vent i plan to have a cooling fan blowing up and out of the engine bay, seeing that's what the function of the vent is. This in turn will pull air up thru the vents on the radiator helping to chill the coolant even more.) Now as dumb as this may sound, as long as the second radiator has the same inlet and outlet as the front radiator it should push the same amount of coolant thru the system correct? (With the understanding that i will have to add more coolant than before.)
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Re: Cooling System

Postby Trinten » Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:03 pm

I can't see it causing any issues, unless for some reason the piping in the radiator is too small and restricts flow. Slowing the flow of water down too much can be just as bad as speeding it up too much. Though it's a good chunk of reading...

http://www.arrowheadradiator.com/14_rul ... obiles.htm

Though if you're running into cooling problems with the stock engine, then there is something else amiss. Adding the radiator might resolve it, but it'd just be covering up a symptom, not addressing the issue.
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Re: Cooling System

Postby Emc209i » Thu Oct 25, 2012 8:59 pm

Trinten wrote:I can't see it causing any issues


-Coolant is flowing the opposite direction.
-The one radiator is sufficient to execute its purpose of regulating engine coolant at its threshold of 212* F.
-The compartment is too small to house an additional radiator other than German and Italian supercar exchangers (read $$$).
- Complexity in the system is never a good thing. Ever!

The three core aftermarket aluminum radiators that can be had relatively inexpensively are know to "over cool" the hottest of engine. The job of the radiator is to stably hold engine coolant temperature at the temperature relegated by the thermostat - around *195. If your car is overheating, you need to replace the radiator with an OEM replacement, that should be more than enough cooling. The stock antique fan trigger switches are also known to be faulty, and can cause temperature fluctuation rather than stability.

If your engine is over cooled, you will be both; damaging your engine because the oil viscosity will not have reached operating temperature and wasting fuel inside open loop operation parameters inside the ECU.

What I'm trying to say is, the stock cooling system is MORE than adequate. If it isn't keeping the motor [s]cool[/s] at 195*F, something needs to be replaced, but nothing needs to be added.

So the real question is, why are you wanting to add an additional exchanger?

No "strike through" tags.
Last edited by Emc209i on Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cooling System

Postby Trinten » Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:07 pm

And I stand corrected. lol

This is why I 'qualify' my statements, ie. "I can't see" versus stating absolutes. "It won't".

Thanks for chiming in!
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Re: Cooling System

Postby Emc209i » Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:12 pm

Trinten wrote:This is why I 'qualify' my statements, ie. "I can't see" versus stating absolutes. "It won't".


Which is very perceptive and forethought. I rewrote the above a few times. I'm dancing around the grey areas of condescension vs being taken seriously. Tequila...
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Re: Cooling System

Postby Thaidon » Fri Oct 26, 2012 6:39 am

It's not that the engine is overheating, being that it has been bored i thought it may have a higher operating temp that standard would. I was going to move the air intake to the passenger side, put a cooling fan under the drivers-side vent blowing the air up and out with the radiator just below the fan; that way it would suck air thru and cool the coolant.

So, i guess my question ultimately would be: Even with the block being bored .30 over, it should still run cool enough not to add any additional cooling mechs?
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Re: Cooling System

Postby Trinten » Fri Oct 26, 2012 9:33 am

Let's run under the theory it does get near overheating -

It goes back to the fact that while your idea is kinda neat (from a "check out that unique thing" perspective - which I am usually a fan of), Emc brought up a good point about the cost (which again, if you're not worried about cost, that's cool).

The thing I thought about (that would stop me from doing it) was that your proposed setup would also make your second radiator the high point of your system (unless I'm imagining it wrong), and is going to make it very difficult to get all of the air out of it, plus another fan failure/clog/leak area to worry about.

I would say gingerly test it out with the stock setup, if it does get too hot, look into the champion radiator solution, and to take it a step further than that, you can look into a better fan.

To give you an idea of how well the stock radiator can work (when everything else is working), it was able to keep my original crate 350 in a reasonable temperature range. Only thing that was not part of the stock cooling system was the electric water pump.
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Re: Cooling System

Postby Emc209i » Fri Oct 26, 2012 10:24 pm

Thaidon wrote:So, i guess my question ultimately would be: Even with the block being bored .30 over, it should still run cool enough not to add any additional cooling mechs?


Yup. A .30 over is absolutely nothing in the scheme of things. You won't even see a single degree rise.

The Fiero coolant capacity is huge, because of how large the coolant system is - having to transport coolant to the front of the car. There's enough coolant in the system to cool a ton of motor. Vince said it well, it would be a cool "extra". But the truth is that its completely unnecessary. You actually want your engine to operate warmer, you'll get better fuel economy and your engine will last longer. The closer you are to 195*+ the better. From a HIGH performance standpoint, you'd want to be around 180*, but Fiero's aren't race cars, they're commuter cars. Cars that need to be cooler are race track only cars that operate only at the limit - engines that are rebuilt monthly and gulp fuel.

Complexity in the system is the enemy. Buy yourself a nice bling aluminum radiator, it'll look cool and do the job twice over.
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Re: Cooling System

Postby Drew-py » Fri Oct 26, 2012 11:23 pm

also, the vents are there to allow heat to exit the engine bay. If you put a coolant radiator under one even with a fan moving air you may end up re-heating the coolant temp from the engine bay heat defeating the whole point
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Re: Cooling System

Postby Thaidon » Sat Oct 27, 2012 3:44 pm

So, let's say that i scrap the idea of adding an additional radiator. Putting a fan upgrade on the front radiator (2 instead of the 1) would probably be best. Instead of going the "added radiator" route, maybe something to the effects of these side scoops: http://www.fiero.nl/cgi-bin/fiero/showT ... =printable or i could take something like off the mr2? http://www.v8mr2.com/images/day13/images/P1030250.jpg If you look close enough they have a fan in them. Take and mimic that with the Fiero and have 2 side scoops with fans to pull the air in to keep the entire bay cool instead of just the engine.
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Re: Cooling System

Postby Trinten » Sat Oct 27, 2012 4:02 pm

Scoops are not only neat (i.m.o.), but they are easily made functional for a variety of purposes. I give the thumbs up for scoops! The one in the second link you posted is the first time I'd ever seen that style/type before. I'd definitely go with those, I don't know how prevalent they truly are, but the majority of the Fieros I've seen with scoops or intakes are usually the style found on the FieroWarehouse - http://www.ovis.net/~dmkfiero/fiberglassparts.html

But for the sake of doing something different, I'd say go with those in your second pic! As for putting fans in the scoops - I would think (again, qualifier!) that the normal airflow from driving is going to outpace any fan you put in, which would make it more obstruction than not. I'd say skip the fans, but man, please don't let me, or anyone else anywhere stop you if that's what you want! The radiator idea we were kinda against more just because the potential problems outweighed the benefits, not the case with scoops/fans.

Raidator fan - if you want to hold off on buying a dual fan, I'll see if I can find which fan I had bought, it was very easy to attach to the stock radiator-fan housing, had a higher CFM than the stock fan, and unless I'm remembering wrong, used less power, so a win-win.

Again though, if you are looking for a little more 'show', I think a dual fan setup would be the way to go. You wire them up so one is your normal fan, and the second kicks on for "high fan".

Let me know if you want to investigate the permacool fan, and I'll dig through my receipts to find the part number!
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