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N.C. Fiero • View topic - Clutch not disengaging.....

Clutch not disengaging.....

Clutch not disengaging.....

Postby Thaidon » Wed May 15, 2013 8:44 pm

Ok, so we have the car running now but when the car IS running you cant shift gears. It won't even go into 1st. The trans shifts fine when the engine isn't running though.

I guess this is my question: Is there suppose to be an adjustment on the slave cylinder?

We have bled the system and will do it again tomorrow, but the cylinder just isn't kicking the rod out far enough to disengage...any and all help on this will be much appreciated!! :)
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Re: Clutch not disengaging.....

Postby Emc209i » Wed May 15, 2013 9:51 pm

There is no adjustment what-so-ever in the slave. Its basically an on | off system, which doesn't work if the slightest air pocket exists.

Bleeding the stock slave systems is a bitch, an absolute royal pain in the ass.

I came up with a method that worked a lot better than the Archie bleed a long time ago. Get a piece of clear hose (you can use black rubber hose too, but you'll get a mouth full of brake fluid and you won't be able to see bubbles) and slip one end over the nipple on the slave bleeder. Slide a box end wrench down the hose and crack open the bleeder. Pull a suction on the hose with your mouth, and slowly pull fluid up the hose. As it comes up you'll see bubbles coming out of the system. When the fluids about half way up, hold a constant suction and make sure no more bubbles come up. Close the bleeder. You should be good to go if your system is air tight.

Sounds pretty homo, but it works. I've watched people jack the back of their cars up and spend hours trying to get the system bled, including gravity bleeds, doesn't always work. If you can hold the piston closed while you do the bleed, your chance of success will be higher, but that's not easy to do with the stock engines, lots of junk in the way.

Using the F23 gets rid of this bullshi*t completely, because it uses a self bleeder. God does the car feel newer with an F23 in it.
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Re: Clutch not disengaging.....

Postby Kento87 » Fri May 17, 2013 12:45 pm

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Re: Clutch not disengaging.....

Postby Thaidon » Fri May 17, 2013 1:52 pm

Well, what we did was take a bottle, fill it with brake fluid, hook it to a tube and upto the bleed valve. Then we squeezed the bottle injecting the fluid into the lines and out the resevoir. Reason being is the shop forman here at work used to be a tech at pontiac. He said the way they did it was to "reverse bleed" the system using some sort of suction mechanism at the resevoir and suck the fluid from the slave cylinder.

Now, having done this and got the bubbles out of the line, still am not able to ge a pedal. I have purchased a new master cylinder and will be putting that on today. (assuming of course this is the real issue) T.B.D. :? If this doesn't happen to be the issue then our next move will be to drop the carriage out AGAIN and crack open the transfer case.
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Re: Clutch not disengaging.....

Postby Emc209i » Fri May 17, 2013 2:29 pm

Your tech's reasoning doesn't sound very convincing. But if you value his opinion over what you read here, let us know how it goes. Sounds like you're going in the wrong direction, but I digress. You can't make a horse drink.

One more thing, I should mention this - If you replace either the master or slave, you should order the aluminum replacement from Rodney Dickman. The cast iron stuff you'll get anywhere else is complete garbage that will fail in a few years. The Rodney replacements will last 500,000 miles.
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Re: Clutch not disengaging.....

Postby Thaidon » Fri May 17, 2013 7:13 pm

Well, i have already replaced both and the new ones are on the vehicle. Gravity bleeding did give us more of a pedal, but it's still not allowing the rod to come far enough out of the slave to disengage the clutch.

One possible thing that could be preventing this is a certain piece in the transfer case was installed incorrectly. We don't really want to crack it back open honestly and are trying every bleeding type possible before doing so.

...*that being said*... :cry:

If there is anyone available possibly this weekend that is free (i do understand there's a cruise on for this saturday and i have to work saturday anyways, so maybe sunday morning) i would GREATLY appreciate any help and will gladly compensate for gas. I wouldn't ask if i weren't at a total loss either, i know people have other things to do; but this little trivial thing is the only part to the car not actually allowing it to be driven.

My contact number is 704-460-6530. Name is Steven.
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Re: Clutch not disengaging.....

Postby Emc209i » Fri May 17, 2013 11:10 pm

Which transmission is this?
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Re: Clutch not disengaging.....

Postby Thaidon » Sat May 18, 2013 7:44 am

5 speed connected to the 2.5l....couldn't tell you if it were the getrag or the isuzu (as i understand it could be one or the other?) i have no clue as to which one it may be though...
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Re: Clutch not disengaging.....

Postby Drew-py » Sat May 18, 2013 9:57 pm

87 GT 3800 II SC, 07 GXP, 91 GMC Syclone #2811
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Re: Clutch not disengaging.....

Postby Thaidon » Sun May 19, 2013 12:30 am

Ok, so based on this picture and your description I have the Isuzu transmission. I'm sure it's been fully bled, and am almost 90% positive that something was simply not put back into the transfer case correctly... :? Tomorrow assuming everything goes well the car should be on the road and I can get the tag and insurance taken care of Monday.
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Re: Clutch not disengaging.....

Postby Drew-py » Sun May 19, 2013 8:13 pm

hope all went successfully for you today and the car is now operating as you would want it to
87 GT 3800 II SC, 07 GXP, 91 GMC Syclone #2811
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Re: Clutch not disengaging.....

Postby Emc209i » Sun May 19, 2013 10:13 pm

Yeah, how'd it go? What were you calling a transfer case?
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Re: Clutch not disengaging.....

Postby Thaidon » Mon May 20, 2013 6:38 am

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Re: Clutch not disengaging.....

Postby Fierofool » Mon May 20, 2013 12:53 pm

Another identifier for the Getrag is the steel end plate.

Even with a new Isuzu slave, you can have problems. I'd suggest that you also purchase the slave rebuild kit for the 85-86 Toyota MR2 and install it into your new slave. It may solve your current problem and certainly give you much longer service.

Now, for the bleeding. Reverse bleeding can be used on some cars. The 944 Porsche must be reverse bled by using pressure to push the fluid back to the reservoir. You must have a tight seal around the bleeder threads to avoid getting more air into the system.

My method of pressure bleeding that has worked when all else fails.

Jack the left front enough to get the wheel off the ground. This raises the reservoir above the slave and tips the bleeder end of the slave upward so air bubbles can flow up to it.
Fill the clutch reservoir to the top and leave the cap off and the fluid bottle close by.
Open the slave bleeder and let the fluid flow while tapping on the side of the slave with the handle of your ratchet. This dislodges air to move up toward the bleeder valve.
Keep watch on the reservoir and run about 2 reservoirs of fluid through the system.
On the third fill up, let the fluid get down to the FULL mark and close the bleeder.

This is a one-man operation and doesn't break up air bubbles in the system like pumping the pedal will do. Now if you installed the throwout bearing incorrectly, the only solution is to pull the transmission again.
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Re: Clutch not disengaging.....

Postby Emc209i » Mon May 20, 2013 2:49 pm

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Re: Clutch not disengaging.....

Postby Thaidon » Tue May 21, 2013 6:37 am

Thank you all, and i will try to remember it being called the bellhousing. As far as the bleeding goes, we did what you suggested a few days ago also. It worked pretty well. A buddy of mine suggested to simply double check the clutch pedal adjustment also, just to be sure before i tear the motor back out. I still feel we will have to take it apart, but i'm going to check regardless. (you never know)
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Re: Clutch not disengaging.....

Postby Kento87 » Tue May 21, 2013 4:38 pm

Again, when you are bleeding it push back on the clutch rod so you force all the bubbles past the bleeder valve back out. I fought with mine for a week before i figured that one out. Just crack the bleeder valve and push back on the rod. You wil be surprised how many bubbles come out.
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Re: Clutch not disengaging.....

Postby Fierofool » Tue May 21, 2013 6:25 pm

Another area that can give the same symptoms is the master cylinder push rod. If you change out the master cylinder or disconnect the pushrod from the pedal, a common mistake is to install the pushrod upside down. Always be sure it's installed with the curl in this position.
Image
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Re: Clutch not disengaging.....

Postby Emc209i » Tue May 21, 2013 9:22 pm

And/or a bent clutch pedal.
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