Swap Emissions for NC

[Ravant]

Alright, have a question for anyone in an emissions county here in NC:
With a swap from a 2m4 to a newer 60*V6, is it possible to still pass the safety/visual emissions test in an '85? I tried DMV, but for each person I contact, I get a different answer. Same goes for calling local inspection stations. None of them can give me a straight answer as to what the actual rules are. So, I figured I'd ask here, see if anyone knows. Basically, I fully intend on grabbing the emissions control equipment off of whatever donor I use for my 3500 swap so I can keep EGR/PCV/etc. But I'm not sure how much of it is actually needed to pass for a 2m4. Or if a V6 will even pass in the car. So I guess before I start gathering parts and moving forward, I should ask if it's even possible, or if I should just sell my chassis, get a V6 Fiero in need of saving and do that one instead.

[Drew-py]

I now live in St Louis Mo which is an emissions state and really what they look for here with such an old car is that everything looks to be there safety wise, which is why its called a safety inspection. Missouri did not hook up the OBDII scanner even though they could see my 3800 swapped engine the inspector just looked for what should be there from the era EGR CAT PCV and respective computer controls.

In my opinion the reason they will not give you a straight answer is because they don't know who is on the other end of the line. Given you are going to get all engine and emissions parts you should not have to worry unless you find a very very stickler for the technical rules which is unlikely, they mention something about it must be a factory optioned motor to pass. DON'T WORRY I am yet to hear some one pulling that card. By starting with a 2M4 the only possible issue with the swap is the tranny bolt pattern how ever i suggest you grab the transmission as well it was designed to get the most out of that engine, power and economy and all, its extra wiring but nothing to be scared of for there is plenty of diagrams and pin-out schematics available, unless it's a manual or you are planning on making it one int that case there are plenty of good options.

Hope this has helped

[Ravant]

Typing from a phone right now, so I have to make this brief:
NC doesn't technically care about emissions in a pre-OBDII car, except in 48 counties. There, as part of safety, they do visual inspections for the parts. That much I got. What I'm not sure of is will they complain if my cat/egr/pcv are not in the stock location? Or are they just checking, "yep, it's in there somewhere."? If the latter is the case, exhaust routing for a turbo just got simple. If the former, the swap will likely not happen unless I retitle the car reconstructed and exempt the car from even the visual. But I'd really rather not do that to a perfect frame like this that's never been in a wreck and doesn't even have so much a speck of rust on it.

[Drew-py]

From the company I was having mine done at in Jacksonville NC the inspector/owner said they are checking to see if the components are there, placement is not required or specified, I think you don't have anything to worry about. Heck if you go to one of those quick service oil change/inspection sites its likely the inspector was born after the car was made and will have no idea what where goes anyways. If you make the exhaust flashy and put the EGR and PCV valve in plain sight then he will likely just be in such awe of your design and forget looking for a cat which is my case I have yet to install the cat in my car, I have a place designed for it just not installed yet

[Ravant]

That's good news. Means I have a couple of things to research about the LA1/LX9 PCM. (O2 sensor handling. They, stock, have one pre and one post cat sensor. If I go with two barrel-shaped metal substrate cats off the manifolds, I'll need 2 precat and 1 post cat sensor. And to adjust tuning accordingly. Then from the crossover, go immediately up to a turbo, then down to a resonator, muffler and out.) Means I'll have to break out my multimeter and oscilloscope and probe at voltages and sensor I/O. Maybe I can somehow combine the signal of 2 O2 sensors into one input that the ECU can read properly. No clue yet. Still in the early stages of the build. I was originally planning for an LE5 Ecotec and F23 5-speed. LX9 makes more power at very nearly the same total weight and is a much, much (read as: infinitely) easier install than the Ecotec. Since I have changed course a week ago, I have compiled a lot of info, but need just a little more to move forward properly.

[Trinten]

I'd like to share the issue I ran into -

The first place I took it to, even though it was just the safety inspection, they still wanted to make sure that the factory emissions equipment was in place ( o2 sensors, EGR Valve, etc). Seeing that wasn't present, it was failed and I was referred to an "emissions officer" at the DMV.

This is an actual gun-and-badge cop that is over all things safety/emissions. When I told her what was going on she said "The issue isn't that you dropped a V8 in there, the issue is that it doesn't have equivalent controls from the factory, if you had the sensors, EGR, so on, you'd be golden."

Obviously there are shops that won't know what to look for to know if you've got what your supposed to have (or care if you do or not as long as your horn/lights/tires are good), but it's something to keep in mind.

[Ravant]

I spoke to two different inspection officers over the last couple of weeks and got two different answers. One said it was fine as long as it had some resemblance of factory emissions in place, the other said it had to be "100% what was there from the factory." insinuating OEM parts and stock placement for the objects themselves. (As in, couldn't relocate the cat, or mount the charcoal canister somewhere else.) But I'm going to work under the assumption that, as long as I use the EVAP, EGR and sensors from the donor, and just any cat at all, it'd be fine. But I began second-guessing myself, so I figured I'd come here and ask around to see what people who've done swaps have run into/had experiences with. I know there is a 3500-swapped Fiero rolling around Raleigh, but I don't know who owns it or how to get in touch with him/her, but would love to hear what the results of that adventure was.

[Drew-py]

[Jncomutt]

This may not pertain to you directly, nor others in NC, but some sniffer experience I had for others that may find this in a search. In CT, they do a sniffer test with the car on a roller. When I did the 3800 swap, I didn't say anything about the engine change. They punched into the computer that its a 2.8, and ran it. The 3800 is much cleaner than the 2.8, and it passed even with a hollow cat. (Cat needed for visual check) Okay, story over.

[Ravant]

That's the thing, if NC just did the sniffer test in emissions counties, I'd be golden. The 3500 is a squeaky-clean engine already when compared to the Iron Duke. Now add to that the fact that I'm doing a metal substrate cat off of each manifold before the crossover, then possibly a ceramic high-flow where the stock one would be to clean further and act as a resonator before the muffler, and I'd likely qualify as a ULEV!

[Emc209i]

[ChuckLS1]

If the car was built before 1996, all there is a safety inspection. They do check and see if the emission equipment is there but there is no sniffer test. The place I went to was pretty good to work with.